As it was in the olden back alleys of the world’s classic cities, that arguments among men were settled with two pairs of fists, slugging it out until only one was left standing. Now, today, it seems this arena has become the Nurburgring racetrack and auto makers are the men. We all heard about Nissan GT-R’s magnificent times posted on this track, even saw what was said to be the video of the real thing. Videos don’t lie. Unedited videos anyway. Nissan’s rival at GT-R level, Porsche, has no problem with video evidence. What it has a problem with is Nissan’s claim of a standard car crushing its own contender, the 911 Turbo, on this legendary track with a blistering time of 7 minutes and 29 seconds back in April 2008.
August Achleitner, the 911 product chief, spoke to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabriolet.
"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," he said. "For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."
To put credit to their suspicions, Achleitner’s team went and bought a GT-R in the US and took it on a back to back to back run against its 911 Turbo as well as the manic GT2, just in case. The tests were done under the same conditions using standard Michelin Sport Cup rubber.
"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," Achleitner was quoted as saying. "It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."
For this reason alone it can be seriously questioned whether GT-R really did achieve its feat as a standard car. The other reasons are the so-called “minor tweaks” that were performed on it before its run at Nordschleife.
For the record here are the times (in brackets) that Porsche achieved with all three cars in standard garb.
Nissan GT-R (7:54)
Porsche 911 Turbo (7:38)
Porsche GT2 (7:34)
Porsche Accuses Nissan of Cheating on GT-R Nurburgring 'Record' Lap Run
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Comments
wow. wcf this is old news from 2 days ago.
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by M! | October 1, 2008 11:38 AM
So you're all saying that the GTR did that time on the Nurburgring, this means that you're all saying that the GTR is only 3sec slower then a ZR1 that have 161 HP more and weights 200 kg lighter, well this means the ZR1 is rubbish!! sorry but i think Nissan is the cheater here, you all really think that's the GTR can be faster then Pagani's, Lambo's, Ferrari's and all other supercars, cause they did'nt beat only Porsche but all those other brands too!! OPEN YOUR EYES!! THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE...
by MC959 | October 1, 2008 6:37 PM
whatever porsche..
by phobos | October 1, 2008 11:54 AM
The Nissan GT-R is faster than Porsche's 911 Turbo, GT2, GT3 RS AND Carrera GT. All these cars were tested around the Top Gear track, all driven by the same driver. The only Porsche car in the top 10 at 9th place is the Carrera GT with a time of 1:19:8 and the Nissan GT-R is 7th with staggering 1:19:7! At 1/10th of a second this seems like a ridicule small advantage but it is still an advantage for a car that costs close to 5 times more than the GT! I love Porsches, they have amazing technology and engineering but I'm sorry say that as Jeremy Clarkson they have a new "Yard stick" to compete against! The Nissan GT-R, just like its Skyline ancestor, is a rocketship that will challenge many acars to come!!
by sheil | October 1, 2008 12:02 PM
Sheil you said it all, cheating yea right
by mortz | October 1, 2008 12:08 PM
nicely put in just few sentences
by kimbo | October 1, 2008 1:10 PM
OK? but why does the press release cars all had on the dyno about 520 to 550 hp, as Nissan says it has 480HP, these is already a prove of cheating, i know the Japanese are magicians with electronic, but the GTR has 200kg(!!) more then the Porsche. both cars should have 480HP and they are both 4 wheel drive, all i know is that we'll now the truth when the first GTR will be delivered in europe with standard specs & i suppose Porsche will have a better answer with the 998 Turbo....
by MC959 | October 1, 2008 5:00 PM
Since the engine is hand built each engine is a little different. 480 is the lowest possible that you will get. Also if you think about it, as the team assembling the engines really get used to building that engine, each one should get more and more hp than the last one.
by pzigly | October 1, 2008 8:45 PM
The last opinion to follow is Top Gear's (especially Clarkson). They are the least objective journalists in the world.
by Get_Real | October 1, 2008 9:33 PM
Dude no car company that prides itself of hand assembling engines will allow a 14.6% variance in HP. Are you on drugs show me any part on a car that has a 14.6% variance in tolerance and that passes QC.
by radmeister | October 3, 2008 4:59 AM
nissan cheated before, so not really surprising...
by catchmyshadow | October 1, 2008 12:04 PM
...a car that cost five times LESS than the GT I meant :-)
by sheil | October 1, 2008 12:05 PM
Well, have to say the GT-R has received some really good reviews for a car costing 50 grand...
Not sure if Nissan is playing dirty but here are the Top Gear lap times:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml
The GT-R beat the Porsche Carrera GT!!
(ummm, the Porsche driver DID remember the engine in the GT-R was in the FRONT, and drove it accordingly...?? - or are the Germans sore losers?)
by 9TNine | October 1, 2008 12:05 PM
so funny ..just bring 2 cars and race them on the track, dont care about the lapping time anymore,
by andy | October 1, 2008 12:05 PM
They have race the gt-r with many porsches and the gt-r is just faster full stop!!
by mortz | October 1, 2008 12:10 PM
They also can make a crash test between this beautiful cars.... To see which of them is the best
by serraxtrem | October 1, 2008 12:11 PM
So instead of trying to compete with the time they are complaining like little girls? That sounds like porsche drivers, all talk and no go.....
by pzigly | October 1, 2008 12:13 PM
Making an Objective test and reporting results isn't whining, he even gave credit to the GT-R.
by Xanavi23 | October 1, 2008 4:03 PM
objective???? There results were 30 seconds slower than what Nissan got. 30 seconds!!!!!!!! That means that the gtr is a little bit faster than a cadillac spec-v. That is not right, were they using the snow tires or something?
by pzigly | October 1, 2008 8:40 PM
sry 20sec
by pzigly | October 1, 2008 9:18 PM
they raced the gt-r with many Porsche's and the gt-r is just faster full stop!! that's all the evidence there.
by mortz | October 1, 2008 12:14 PM
this is funny
by cyclist848 | October 1, 2008 12:19 PM
Check out this month's Evo. Marc Basseng laps the Ring in the following:
Maserato MC12 7:24.29 Pagani Zonda F CS 7:24.65 Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21 Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55
By this measure the GTR is slower than all but a sick Koenigsegg. Still a great achievement however.
by bristol411s3 | October 1, 2008 12:34 PM
That just goes to prove once again the driver is still very important, and can make up the differences between cars. Those 5 supercars have much slower laps on 'official' Nurburgring charts, and Evo showed there are just tenths between them.
I suspect Porsche can't drive GT-R as it's intended, no way is it 20 sec slower then a 911 Turbo.
by Voss | October 1, 2008 2:09 PM
oh man. because the gtr was drove by me. thats why its faster. ok, its a joke.
by anonymous | October 1, 2008 8:13 PM
The GT-R and the 911 Turbo are NOT COMPETITORS, contenders or even rivals. They are geared towards entirely different buyers. A 911 Turbo buyer will never ever consider a replacement GT-R. If you look up the client profiles of both cars you will find that they differ vastly by age, lifestyle and income.
As for the Nürburgring times: I am convinced that the facelift 911 Turbo PDK will show its sovereignty over the GT-R.
by Racketeer | October 1, 2008 12:39 PM
Racketeer, check this out:
Bruno Senna (GP2) drives GT-R and Porsche Turbo
http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?mnk=410&id=255&description=Bruno+Senna
by 9TNine | October 1, 2008 1:05 PM
ohhh man... why dont they do it like in the old days. bring the god damn cars to the track, have an official inspect them for any tweaks ..than `ucking race them. ... one at a time, same driver. than have 2 drivers race them, at the same time. what a bunch of geniuses...both porsche and nissan
by norther | October 1, 2008 12:43 PM
@Racketeer - man, you're soooo right... There's not even one person on the face of the earth that is going for the Porsche, then seeing this lap times and going for the Nissan. Hahahaha! Nissan...? Image car...? That's beyond stupid. The key word here is "target groups" and they are soooo different.
by trespasser | October 1, 2008 1:10 PM
fifth gear track, top gear track, japanese test on youtube. Everywhere GT-R is faster than a 911 Turbo and sometimes even Carrera GT. So Porsche stop be annoying and just admit that GT-R is half the price of a Turbo and is faster... even more exotic as for me..
by kimbo | October 1, 2008 1:14 PM
come on.....we all know GT-R is faster....just stop it
by abugatti | October 1, 2008 1:29 PM
Well, with Ken Livingston gone, guess Porsche had to find other tihngs to do... :)
by 9TNine | October 1, 2008 1:41 PM
target groups arent' that different after all. i'd go for the gt-r.
by amade.ch | October 1, 2008 1:54 PM
Of course! But well, you just chose your target group :P Enjoy your underpriced car in NFS:Undercover...
by ShinyG | October 1, 2008 2:06 PM
You should all stop acting like followers of the Nissan Cult of Enlightment! I myself think that Porsche might be wrong, but I still think Nissan might have "hyped" the results a bit to make their car look good! They all do. Arguments like "we all know" or "bla-bla-bla FULL STOP!" are not welcome anywhere. If Porsche is speaking bull, they will face the consequences, if they are right, Nissan has some explaining to do... I gues if it turns out they were cheating, all the PlayStation generation will cheer them for having "mad hax". After all, that's the target of that tasteless beast of an overweight rocket-powered shoebox they call the GT-R! So, everyone who hasn't reached legal drinking age, please shut up!
by ShinyG | October 1, 2008 2:00 PM
ha! well said, mate.
by Lucifa | October 2, 2008 8:03 AM
That's right Cuberider, sick off people saying "its too heavy with only 480hp, there's no way it can go around the ring in that time" some people should of done physics at school or even go back to school, Gee
by mortz | November 18, 2008 12:15 PM
i cant see how people can judge a car like the nissan GT-R when it delivers that kind of performance for what is a cheap car (by supercar standards) porsches test isnt that good whn you think about it, they are used to driving 911's so they would know how it performed and handled at 'the ring' nissan gt-r would be completly new to them handling diferent etc...
by munch997 | October 1, 2008 2:10 PM
I respect the GT-R... That's normal. It's super fast! But if I had the money I would never buy it. Maybe I'll impress (as ShinyG said) the PS Generation, but not any serious people. Cause Porsches are not only supercars etc... they bring certain image with them, something Nissan could only dream about.
by trespasser | October 1, 2008 2:31 PM
And Nordeschleife laptimes are just SO important. I don't believe either Porsche's or Nissan's tests ate correct. Nissan GT-R reached 7:54 and Porsche Turbo got 7:38. I don't think so, the same way the GT-Rs 7:29 is unbelievable. I wouldn't of thought it'd reach over 7:39. The GT2 easily beats the GT-R, but the Turbo isn't as sports focused.
by James2911 | October 1, 2008 2:43 PM
tyres or tires??? LOL...
and i have to agree with the porsche guy... i tend towards believing that the GT-R didn't have regualr tires on...!!!
by smokeonit | October 1, 2008 2:56 PM
and i retract the tyres comment... tyre=english for tire... me culpa...;-(
by smokeonit | October 1, 2008 2:57 PM
tire= american english
by smokeonit | October 1, 2008 2:57 PM
haha. its rubber on the rims. i think everyone can understand. (: lol.
by anonymous | October 1, 2008 8:17 PM
I am not a fan of Porsche neither a Nissan....but if I consider that at same power as 911 Turbo and more weight...how can be GT-R faster??? yes they have the same acceleration times and top speed...but then if you put a 911 GT2 which is even faster than 911 Turbo....how than that GT-R is faster....REALLY HARD TO BELIEVE!!! Or Nissan is really cheating that they have ?only? 480HP (yes there are some owners who puts their GT_R on dyno and show us that GT-R is having 480HP on WHEELs!!!!)!!! That is the only possible thing....or tell me something better
by Swifthead | October 1, 2008 3:05 PM
You're forgetting the fact, that Porsche's AWD-system sucks, but Nissan's not. The engine delivers more power over a wider band. (see link at bottom) So why shouldn't a car with more and better technology but only 20kg more weight be better than a car with a worse AWD-system, lower engine power and also a worse weight distribution ? Well Germans are fukin retarded when it comes to their cars. I'm german and i dislike most cars here...
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/nissan-gt-r-dyno-test/696519/
by justbored | October 1, 2008 3:23 PM
@ justbored
the weight difference is not 20kg but 200 kg(well a litlle bit less, around 190kg)sorry, but for the same HP(480)i think it's a very big weight difference
by MC959 | October 1, 2008 5:14 PM
and i don't think their(German) system is that bad, i think Audi got the Quattro technology for something like 25 years...(and brought this technology to rally) and i suppose you know Porsche & Audi are part of the VolkswagenAudiGroup VAG, and is now owned by Porsche
by MC959 | October 1, 2008 5:17 PM
@MC959: Sorry, my fault, i forgot a 1, it's 120kg difference around. But no excuse for the crappy AWD-system. Carrera 2S and 4S are nearly equally fast on the track, even on bad conditions. 2S is most times a bit faster then 4S. 997 Turbo got the AWD from the 4S, meaning an AWD-system that's not faster but only easier to drive than the 2WD. And if you didn't notice, the Quattro system isn't as impressive as it was when it got introduced. Especially the one with that stupid clutch, used in the R8 and the normally FWD-cars. The Audi R8 would be significantly faster with only RWD, that's why a racing team did a 2WD conversion for the 24hours of the Nürburgring.
by justbored | October 1, 2008 6:28 PM
I still have some doubts about the 7:29 of the GT-R since that time is not "official" (SportAuto will do THE test on the Nordschleife with Horst von Saurma). 7:3x should be doable for the car without problems. Even the M3 CSL had a 7:50 with only 360PS (I know thats not all it takes). This also means that the 7:54 from Porsche in the GT-R are way to slow. But I really like to see an offical Nordschleife-time from the GT-R from a neutral source.
by aj1575 | October 1, 2008 3:09 PM
pathetic porsche, WTF i mean this is so low from u, how about STFU and make batter faster cars, if u want to be in front of the pack, not making bad shows like this, it makes me sick
by M.V.P. | October 1, 2008 3:12 PM
Being on Top of the sports car world involves you looking at your competitors offerings, even buying them and taking them apart with a micro-scope, Porsche did so. You don't know business?
by Xanavi23 | October 1, 2008 4:07 PM
Low would be to bash the car. i think what Porsche did was right when you think about it. If by numbers something strikes you as not making sense, meaning that with the same power and less weight your car which has been refined for over 30 years makes a slower time, why not take them to the track yourself and report the results. whether its biased, probably, but let the independent drivers decide this, eventually the truth will come out.
Nissan made a great car but i also thought something was sketchy when i saw those times. and then the rumors started flying about it being modified just added fuel to the fire.
by MadMaTTer | October 1, 2008 6:14 PM
What Porsche, can't take it when there a car company thats better than you. As always Porsche is a joke to the auto industry.
by dmanero | October 1, 2008 3:52 PM
Its funny, i love the GT-R but most of you all are fanboys. Porsche runs a test that other manufacturers will too and find out somethings that SMART people already figured were going on.(I TOLD YOU SO) Even complimenting the car, in one of the most important to racing ways; its VERY consistent.Then they get blasted by a bunch of Internet warriors, most of which don't actually know their ass from their elbows in the world let alone the world of cars. YOU should get a life and learn to look at things Objectively. I love the GT-R, but cut the crap, a "stock" GT-R did NOT run 7:29, its physics and PRECEDENT set by previous sports cars. I beleive the GT-R can run substantially better than 7:54, close to the 997T but the point still stands, Nissan die "cheat". Porsche taking apart the GT-R is no different than what ANY successful business would do, take apart the competitors product, see what it has, doesn't have, what it can/can't do etc etc etc. This is smart business and not whining. I highly doubt Porsches sole reason for doing this was to "whine", they did it so they could learn about the GT-R and use any of that info learned to make their own next car even better. The "cheating" was just an inevitable conclusion, we ALL knew so.
Lastly, smarten up, even if the GT-R can "only" run 7:40~, its still a hell of a lot faster than its competition(M3/CLK 63 etc) for less money in some cases, there's no shame there.
by Xanavi23 | October 1, 2008 4:14 PM
Read my comment and stop that bullshit posting ;) I don't doubt, that the time of the Nissan GT-R (7:29) may be driven with several changes on the car, because Nissan didn't say that it's done with a stock car nor did they say that it's done with a tuned car. but i really doubt that the Porsche 997 Turbo stand any chance against the GT-R on the track. The GT-R did a 7:38 on a partly wet track and maybe some minor driving failures, with better conditions a time of around 7:32-7:35 is easily possible and surpasses the Porsche 997 turbo greatly.
by justbored | October 1, 2008 4:32 PM
Xanavi, you say physics makes the GTR time impossible. I say physics makes the GTR time possible. The GTR has a lower center of gravity, this produces less roll and thus has less weight transfer in corners and that in turn leads to increased cornering capacity. While extra weight does mean there is more mass to move around, it also helps counter itself by providing a bit more downforce over the wheels. So having 190kg of weight difference really isn't that substantial. The torque/power chart posted shows that this car also produces more torque across a wider rev range. The moment of inertia and weight distribution of the 2 cars also favors the GTR, more even weight distribution simply means more grip, moment of inertia means the car won't drive like a hammer. The awd system found in Porsches is not the quattro system found in Audi's, I honestly can't say anything good or bad against the one used in the 911, all I can say is that it is different from Audi's and my guess is less advanced then the one used by the GTR. That's my analysis of the physics and the GTR times still seem plausible. Especially when driver skill alone can shave off tremendous amounts of time. I'd say take both cars for a test drive and see which one you like more before buying, if you wanna be in the Porsche club, you will probably buy the 911, if you want the latest "cheap" Japanese supercar, get the GTR.
by Joe_Limon | October 1, 2008 7:29 PM
Joe, in all honesty, im inclined to beleive you, which is why im sure it can do a hell of alot better than :54, im thing at least high 30s. :29 im not so sure.
by Xanavi23 | October 2, 2008 3:21 AM
LOL... I think Porsche is the cheater.. To put other tires on the GT-R rather than standard ones is just proof of it. The GT-R's tires were developed specially for that car, so it can handle the fearsome steering that this car produce... The GT-R is a car made to blow your mind in the corners so for that reason they do need special tires. I do clearly think the GTR raped all the way any Porsche because Nissan did not only buil the body of the car, but also developed special tires for it, in order to be the ultimate maschine.
I think Porsche is not able at this time to produce a car that can rival the GTR and thus the reason for those claims... LOL
GTR over 911 turbo all the way
by danteskov | October 1, 2008 4:38 PM
lol @ special tyres. the tyres have nitrogen in them? whoop-de-frikkin-do, so do mine. air is 78% nitrogen! an extra 22% isn't that big a thing to shout about, it's just a gimmick.
by Lucifa | October 2, 2008 8:27 AM
By the way, any automobile critics will claim that the GTR is a far better and faster car than any Porsche... LOL
by danteskov | October 1, 2008 4:40 PM
wow japan lies.
by mmr66 | October 1, 2008 4:46 PM
That's nothing new...they lie all the time. Look at how many times they've been busted in the US for falsely stating hp figures in their cars.
by schizo0223 | October 2, 2008 6:10 AM
I just made my own test on nordschleife, GT-R was 7:30 while 911 Turbo 8:03, how about that?
by kimbo | October 1, 2008 5:05 PM
what did u test it on? gran turismo 5? leave it to the pros
by dbehmoaras | October 1, 2008 5:30 PM
i wanted to say that porsche statement is worthless, they can say that GT-R's time was whatever they want to be.
by kimbo | October 1, 2008 11:02 PM
So you're all saying that the GTR did that time on the Nurburgring, this means that you're all saying that the GTR is only 3sec slower then a ZR1 that have 161 HP more and weights 200 kg lighter, well this means the ZR1 is rubbish!! sorry but i think Nissan is the cheater here, you all really think that's the GTR can be faster then Pagani's, Lambo's, Ferrari's and all other supercars, cause they did'nt beat only Porsche but all those other brands too!! OPEN YOUR EYES!! THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE...
by MC959 | October 1, 2008 5:30 PM
Imho Lamborghinis are just oversized Audi R8s with more power, so why shouldn't the GT-R be faster ? Only fast Lamborghini is the Gallardo Superleggera, maybe the LP Version can beat it's "predecessors" time. And there's a Pagani with a 7:27 on the Ring, so the GT-R isn't even faster than all Paganis. Maybe the Enzo ist faster than the GT-R, but there isn't any interesting track lap time out there to check this. So yes, there isn't any lap time from an exotic, besides the Zonda, that's faster than the GT-R. Only some "muscle cars" and some outdated cars like the Porsche Carrera GT (7:28, Walter Röhrl) which isn't produced anymore.
by justbored | October 1, 2008 6:35 PM
That statement might be true about the Lambo's... if the R8 came out before the Murcielago or the Gallardo. I think there aren't any awesome times for any these supercars because no one is willing to push a car that costs that much that hard.
by Joe_Limon | October 1, 2008 7:43 PM
GT5 nice. porsche sux, but nissan lied.
by madmax | October 1, 2008 5:31 PM
Does cheating mean driving this car in a video game?
Nobody has won. Porsche is just jealous, and Nissan just lies.
by Tuner_Mad | October 1, 2008 6:00 PM
Whatever happened i just want to know the truth. I want nissan to come out and tell us that they used diff tyres and whatever. I am certainly not gona take Porsches word for it thats for sure.
by NoureldeenAlfassi | October 1, 2008 6:06 PM
as stated in one of the first comments motortrend got a 510 hp on the dyno so you know nissan isn't telling the whole story, still there is no denying that the skylines an incredible car. though i personal would take a turbo or GT2 or it anyday
by jslcarfan | October 1, 2008 7:31 PM
AS USUAL THIS IS JUST A BATTLE OF OPINIONS HERE PEOPLE... i love these dramatic threads.."Porsche is a joke to the auto industry", HAAAA! Idiot. It's cool that Nissan gutted the inside of the car and cranked up the boost for their run. I would do the same thing. I like both cars but I will always be a Porsche fanatic. And honestly, I don't give a sh*t which one is faster because at the end of the day, one is a Nissan and one is a Porsche. Not even WORTH comparing. Porsche just wants everyone to play fair, even if it is just tires or tYres, ha.
by jakemiles | October 1, 2008 7:41 PM
This sums it up nicely
by Get_Real | October 1, 2008 9:59 PM
Im a Nissan man, but while there is some comparing to be done, you're right no less, one is a Porsche. Hype aside, they're the Business.
by Xanavi23 | October 2, 2008 3:24 AM
Still a Nissan and still faster than most of what Porsche have to offer, its been proven numerous times all over the world a good example is the top gear power lap the Nissan did 1.19.07, what more has to be said its the 21st century and that's what the gtr is designed for. there's really no argument when the facts and proof is right in front of you.
by mortz | October 2, 2008 3:53 AM
Summed up very nicely. Thank you.
by schizo0223 | October 2, 2008 6:12 AM
agreed
by jslcarfan | October 1, 2008 8:00 PM
what people dont get is that the GT-R makes more than 500 hp, 480 hp goes to the wheels, so it only makes sense that its faster than the 911 turbo. And the porsche driver probably didnt drive the GT-R at its limits.
by omarb07 | October 1, 2008 8:35 PM
if it's putting 480HP to the wheels, it means the engine is producing more power, so why aren't they saying that they have 510 or 520HP????
by mc959 | October 2, 2008 11:21 AM
well. GTR is a more well-balanced car with better technology and more power and torque though the mid-range. well that does not prove the winner though. yes, weight is an issue. but weight can stabled the car in high speed. so it deal with the aero-dynamic more than the weight. it'll have more grip in corner and the all wheel drive system in the gtr is fantastic. after all, i dont think nissan will be that dumb to lie about a totally incredible time that announced to the whole world. isnt it obvious that the truth will be out soon? nissan had spent so many years on the research on gtr. tarnishing the gtr image with the fae timing will be really insensible. some of you might be disagreeing with me. its really ok. cant we just wait for the rest of the automotive specialists have their say in this?
by anonymous | October 1, 2008 8:44 PM
Porsche = baby crying
by _M7_ | October 1, 2008 9:10 PM
The gtr has a perfect balance with the engine sitting on the front wheels and the transmission sits on the back wheels and the driver sits in the middle giving it a 50/50 balance, this means that the gtr can do a corner like no other car on the road and then not to mention the atessa ets awd system that also gives it sticking power when you add these factors together its easy to see how the gtr is so fast, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand physics at this level
by mortz | October 1, 2008 9:27 PM
Except 50/50 is only desired when you're static. If you're at 50/50 distribution and you slam on brakes, what happens? Weight transfer to the front wheels, off the rears. The perfect distribution is somewhere between 46/54 and 48/52. Just think about the physics. Ferrari already knows this...
by benz_man | October 1, 2008 9:57 PM
rearward weight bias creates under steer when powering through a corner. Also, rear bias is favored for rwd cars such as Ferrari's which naturally drive in over steer conditions. The GTR is awd so 50/50 is the best.
by Joe_Limon | October 2, 2008 1:05 AM
GT-R is not 50/50 static. It's deliberately 53/47 static so that it achieves what Mizuno-san states is a dynamic 50/50. The GT-R also shifts faster than the 911 so it loses less speed in the corners before getting back on the power. And we all know Nissan under-reports the power of this car.
Nissan and Bridgestone tested hundreds of tire compounds and treads to arrive at the final GT-R-specific tire, so I cannot imagine why they would run it on anything else.
Keep in mind also that Mizuno-san had a 911 Turbo along for all of the GT-R's testing and development.
I've wanted a 911 since I was a kid, and still do, but I have to respect what the GT-R can do.
by machida | October 2, 2008 5:37 AM
Hey Joe_ you're one of the more intelligent posters on WCF, so I'm wondering if you just typed that last comment wrong... Rearward weight bias creates OVERsteer when powering through a corner. Most FWD cars understeer horrifically not because of the FWD, but because of all the weight hanging over the front axle. Also, I'm not sure if you're a true driver, but before you can "power through" any corner, you must first decelerate abruptly to balance the vehicle for corner entry (throw the weight to the outside front wheel). This is the moment when perfect weight proportioning is most needed. If the vehicle is 46/54 static, when the weight shifts and you proceed toward corner apex and exit, dynamic balance will be around 50/50. A vehicle with static 50/50 would be somewhere around 54/46 dynamic in that example. I tried to make that easy for everyone to understand.
by benz_man | October 3, 2008 1:35 PM
Oh yeah, the GT-R is hands down the better value. The 911T is just the better car. If its all about the numbers, you can't beat the GT-R. But, when you actually start driving them, the Porsche is almost organic. To be fair, I've driven multiple 911s for hundreds of miles. I've only driven one GT-R for a half dozen.
by benz_man | October 1, 2008 10:04 PM
porsche didn't behave like a such company should. they behaved like a child by saying this. They lost a lot in my eyes.
by kimbo | October 1, 2008 11:03 PM
cheating? yeah right porsche what a bunch of cry babies!
by EJ255 | October 2, 2008 2:28 AM
Has anyone on here actually driven both cars, or either for that matter??? I have, and They both are awesome cars, and the nissan is a bargan for the price, but at the end of the day it will come down to who is behind the wheel as to which car is quicker. I am a life long Porsche fan, I sell them for a living, The GTR is very fast, no doubt. but its still a nissan..
by porsche08 | October 2, 2008 2:47 AM
Still a Nissan and still faster than most of what Porsche have to offer, its been proven numerous times all over the world a good example is the top gear power lap the Nissan did 1.19.07, what more has to be said its the 21st century and that's what the gtr is designed for. there's really no argument when the facts and proof is right in front of you...
by mortz | October 2, 2008 3:58 AM
i have been thinking if the GTR v-spec comes out and take its run on the nurburgring track like taking a stroll in the park. it's going to go around the track like a roller coaster? lol.
by anonymous | October 2, 2008 5:29 AM
Who damn cares if its a Nissan? The extra money you save can go to modifications or somewhere else. Like what somebody said here let them (Porsche & Nissan) test it head to head with proper inspectors and all with only 1 test driver stock vs stock. Lets wait and see who wins it or who cries about it. End of story.
by EJ255 | October 2, 2008 6:12 AM
so this has been going on since the r32 or r33?? for porsche to make such an accusation seems silly and porsche have everything to lose, unless of course, porsche is telling the truth which does not make it silly anymore, and i believe them.
by aesthetics | October 2, 2008 6:17 AM
Check out the October episode of Best Motoring. They raced 5 cars and here are the results in order: 1. NSX-R 2. Ferrari 360 (race prepped) 3. Porsche GT2 4. Porsche GT3RS 5. Nissan GTR
That's still pretty good for the GTR...but that is where the GTR belongs.
The GTR is a great car...but it will always have the stigma...great car for the money...attached to it.
It will never be what a Porsche is at the social level.
We will never know how honest Nissan was with the RING time. A car like the GTR can be tuned very easily without any notice with a simple reprogramming of the engine management system, so it could be possible that it was a reprogammed car with sticky tires and weight pared down to the minimum.
The only way we will ever know is if an independent tester went to the dealership and bought a standard GTR and a standard Porsche Turbo and lapped the times.
And final note...cars given by the manufacturers for press testing are press cars...never believe that they are exactly what you will buy.
Only thing you should trust is test driving them for yourself and buying what you think is the best car.
by schizo0223 | October 2, 2008 6:33 AM
Don't bring in the social level blah blah shiz here. gimme a break! And why is Porsche only complaining about Nissan's GTR where the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 posted a better 7:26 lap time and the Dodge Viper ACR posted an even better 7:22 lap time! Social level my butt! The Dodge Viper ACR and Chevy's Corvette ZR1 aint good lookin cars either but are they at the social level as "your" Porsche? It's funny how people define what social level is.
by EJ255 | October 2, 2008 8:58 AM
Real order of fastest times is: 1. Nissan GT-R 1:03.302 (had problems with transmission in last lap) 2. RSD Ferrari 360 1:04.100 3. Porsche 911 GT2 1:04.154 4. NSX-R (mild street-tuned by Tsuchiya Keiichi) 1:04.587 5. Porsche 011 GT3RS 1:05.692
Btw, Porsche offers those "Press cars" too. Especially Audi/VW is known to offer greatly enhanced cars. Why are those Porsche fanboys that stubborn ? RR is outdated, they should make a Cayman GT2/3RS. Would handle pretty MUCH better with more traction. The only other way for Porsche to compete is the engineering of a better AWD-system than Nissan's or the revival of a Carrera GT.
by justbored | October 2, 2008 11:37 AM
@EJ255
Porsche is not saying anything cause the Vette en the Viper got more HP and have more or less the same weight as the Porsche, but with the GTR where speaking about same HP and more weight(120kg!!) for the GTR, and 120kg is a lot on a course like the Nurburgring, i really got a problem with this time when you see all the big names that are behind the GTR, you have some supercars that are really made for driving very fast, and nissan comes with their 70.000$ car and beat everybody(not anymore with Viper & Vette), 7:29 is really, really fast and i don't believe a 480HP with 1770kg can do this...
by mc959 | October 2, 2008 12:00 PM
wow... i'm surprized noone has bashed u yet on this article... gives me a pleasure though!! :D:D 1. AS IF you brought in the name "best motoring" to this article... those guys are the most biased car show on earth!!!... its ALL about the japanese makes..always. seriously... i saw that best motoring episode... and the GTR broke down... didn't lose... but broke down... BUT if u looked at the times carefully... it did manage to get the fastest lap time during that race. SO go back and watch that episode and please come back to me and TRY i dare u TRY and refute this comment. i hate u lol 2. the last part with a normal dude going out and buying both cars and testing them for times... completely agree with. however, there are officials there who know cars and their computers and people who can CHECK for modifications... not perfect but i think they know what their doing... either way... porsche could have easily modded their porsches as well. so either way, the end result time wise... GTR wins. period. porsche is just complaining that they couldn't figure out a way to make the GT2 or Turbo go faster... if they had, they wouldn't be complaining... i just lost respect to porsche... seriously... sour losers... also... why didn't they just come out with a new car later on and beat the GTR intead of whining that their current cars cant beat a japanese car? sad world we live in hahaha
by carcrazy1234 | October 2, 2008 7:23 AM
mc959 go watch the Nissan gt-r on the topgear power lap!
by mortz | October 2, 2008 12:44 PM
wow..93 comments..
by phobos | October 2, 2008 8:23 AM
Yea carcrazy1234 it is a sad world we live in, because even with proof of the gt-r beating porsches and lap times with the same driver and even on the top gear power lap but still people still ramble on like there's actually an argument, the gt-r is not just faster but easier to drive faster.
by mortz | October 2, 2008 9:44 AM
PORSCHES 911 Turbo has 2 turbos so it should be more faster then this playstation Nissan GT-R think toy.
by Blackeyes21 | October 2, 2008 12:26 PM
can u please get the proper info before u post!!!! Both cars have 2 turbos
by pzigly | October 2, 2008 12:30 PM
Strange how Porsche think Nissan cheated at Nurbergring but not Chev with the Corvette which was faster than both.
by Davethepetrolhead | October 2, 2008 12:58 PM
HAHAHAHAHA you're a fool
by Decypha | October 2, 2008 6:34 PM
mortz..what kind of a proof are u talking about? noone knows if the car was stock, and everything indicates that it wasnt..
i dont even trust other tests, beacuse as car and driver have shown(smart move btw), their car that nissan send them had more power than a stock nissan should have. dont u still get it? nissan is purposley making the cars more power than they should be to make an impression that they that good..if they really had 480 hp thay would never be that fast.
by nissansucks | October 10, 2008 1:29 PM
Where should i start, just go to you tube and you find gt-rs beating 911 turbos all over the world. check out the top gear power lap table and have a look at where Nissan and then where Porsche is, thanks
by mortz | November 18, 2008 12:18 PM
can someone chk the gear ratio and final drives... so we can hv a better comparison!!!
by b1ack_ange1s | November 2, 2008 12:12 PM
I can't believe my eyes when I read some of the posts here. The claims for the GT-R is that around that circuit it beats the Porsche. Not on a drag. Horsepower only plays a small part on the track. The drivetrain, the weight distribution and a lot of other factors come it. You kids out there better learn more before you write a lot of crap for others to read.
by Cuberider | November 11, 2008 9:20 AM
Last Tuesday we took a 911 GT2 (supplied by Porsche) and a Nissan GT-R (a customer car imported from Japan) and joined the RMA track day at the 'ring.
Chris Harris was the driver and he drove each car for three laps (one out lap, and two flying laps). Naturally we recorded the laps on video and recorded the lap and section times on Racelogic telemetry. We are busy finishing the video and will shortly publish the feature story and full results.
This is as close as you'll probably get to an independent and unbiased validation of their respective 'claimed' lap times so it will be interesting to see how this conversation goes after the results are published.
by SteveDR | November 20, 2008 10:05 PM
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